Author Topic: Meconopsis staintonii  (Read 3873 times)

Peter Kohn

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Meconopsis staintonii
« on: February 21, 2017, 08:48:05 AM »
I notice that the Plant List still regards this name as 'unresolved'. Has any work been done on the DNA ?  It seems that the white form grows much taller than other colour forms. This year I have sown four different colour forms, twofrom Cluny seed plus my own red form which was only about 90cm tall and seed from Ian Scott's albiflorum (very tall). Only the lemon yellow form has germinated so far. Might the different colour forms potentially be separable ?

Meconopsis_Group

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2017, 10:40:33 AM »
Hello thanks for you post this is something that we are all looking at two years ago John from Cluny gave me several M. staintonii when these flowered we had a group of 3 here and Pink Lemon and White at the Forfar garden the white one was the weakest I am sure what we have are Hybrids John has a large planting at Cluny must visit when in flower, cheers.

IanScott

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2017, 10:48:11 PM »
Unfortunately I could not attend the Meconopsis Meeting last autumn, but I understand that there was a discussion about these plants. I gather that Alan Oatway thinks that the large white form that I grow, is a white form of Meconopsis paniculata.  He may be right, I really don't know.

When I first grew the plant from Chris Chadwell seed (CC 3317), I assumed that it was a white form of M. wallichii, as it flowered right into late October. Later on I obtained seed of the true M. wallichii, and it was obviously not that.  Several members suggested that it was the white form of M. staintonii but, as I said at a previous meeting, there are similarities but the seed was collected from the 'wrong' place and the red forms of M. staintonii flower much earlier and never attain the height of my 'Great White'.  This year I have it and authenticated  M. paniculata growing in the garden, so I'll do a comparison.

In the meantime I am loathed to change the name yet again in the seed list and M. sp (ex CC 3317) on its own isn't very informative, so it'll stay as such until we have more information.

Incidentally, I find that it happily self-seeds into the boggy area around one of my pools and needs no winter protection.


Peter Kohn

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2017, 01:53:54 PM »
My seedlings grown from Ian's seedhead stem brought to the October 2015 meeting are clearly not M. wallichii but they vary subtly so suspect they are also now hybrids.

Meconopsis_Group

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 07:28:48 PM »
I have been watching 3 plants in my garden supposed to be Meconopsis staintoni all are going to flower but leaves are very different one plant  could be other 2 are ??? will post pictures when in flower cheers.

ptallbo

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2017, 09:55:30 AM »
Here is a picture of my M staintonii from Magnar Aspaker in Norway , these are sown last year and are  planted in a loamy humid soil in full sun together with my M integrifolia.

IanScott

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2017, 09:37:49 PM »
From the colour of the foliage and the ginger hairs I would expect your plants to produce red flowers. In my experience, the other coloured forms (that is assuming that they are colour variants) always have more grey-green foliage and whitish hairs.

My plants of M. staintonii ex CC 3964 have been flowering for the last 3 weeks (long before ex CC 3317) and I have been hand pollinating the red flowers against each other and marking them for seed collection.  When the ex CC 3317 breaks bud I will no longer mark the seed capsules, so that I will know which ones to collect.

For ex CC 3317 I will do the reverse process and mark seed capsules after the red form has finished flowering.

Sorry that the seed from the 'Great White' that I brought in seems to have produced hybrids seeds.  It really was more to illustrate its unusual height, and it could have crossed with other Mecs in the garden.

ptallbo

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2017, 11:02:26 PM »
Soon into flower :









Meconopsis_Group

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2017, 07:57:09 AM »
Plants look great look forward to flowers. cheers.

ptallbo

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2017, 07:20:46 AM »
Only one flower so far but manage to get 3 species and one cultivar into the same picture ..:)


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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2017, 08:25:26 AM »
Well done look good I have 3 plants in flower plus 2 odd ones very different here are my pictures cheers

Meconopsis_Group

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2017, 08:26:20 AM »
next picture

ptallbo

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2017, 08:01:04 AM »
Looking great...:) I have sown seed of the white one but no germinatio yet. And the last picture of the red or almost pink one with green leafs.

ptallbo

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2017, 09:23:02 AM »
Update on the plant , there were at most 4-5 flowers at the same time, but not it only 1-2 since they seem to fall of fast if pollinated.

IanScott

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2017, 09:03:57 AM »
Update on Meconopsis ex CC3317

Those who attended an Edinburgh meeting some time back may remember the amazing height of Meconopsis ex CC3317 which I brought in. The dead and dried plant still had seed capsules and several members took seed away.  This seed was of open pollination and I think that Peter Kohn's resulting plants were pink flowered.

Anyway, I had the tall white flowered Meconopsis ex CC3317 self seeding underneath an adult plant and this year one of the very tall seedlings was pink flowered, but with the usual coloured leaves (i.e not the golden colour of M. staintonii).  Now the only Meconopsis in the garden which could have been the other parent was M. staintonii (red form) which was growing nearby.

I collected a lot of seed capsules as the plant is quite attractive, but the seed is non-viable dust.  So this appears to be a sterile hybrid (Meconopsis ex CC3317 x M. staintonii).  In other words M. ex CC3317 cannot be the white form of M. staintonii (albiflora). A view put forward at a later Edinburgh meeting.

The other suggestion has been that it is a white form of Meconopsis paniculata. However if both M. paniculata and M. staintonii are part of the gene pool of M. napaulensis (of hort), then this identity is equally questionable.

Hmm ...........

Peter Kohn

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2017, 08:10:35 AM »
My flowering plant was actually (almost) pure white and the seed capsules were still not yet ready to harvest so cannot comment on the seed yet. Several other plants are still at the rosette stage and look not unlike the 'M. staintonii' grown from Cluny seed this year (this was the 'lemon yellow' form - I didn't get germination from 'pinky red' or from Ian's ex CC second time round).  I have to say that both Ian and |\\john's seed progeny have made very spectacular rosettes so far.  I have had a lot of losses from plants in the napaulensis (hort) and paniculata group with plants in pots here in Sheffield so I am hoping for better luck with plants in the ground.

Royson

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2017, 02:56:05 PM »
next picture

That's a beautiful shade of pink!

poppy girl

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2017, 12:50:45 PM »
The leaves are very tidy too and a good match for the pink Royston. Its just always a shame that there is no guarantee of an exact match from the seed. But then that's the fun of it all.

Margaret Thorne

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2018, 09:52:54 PM »
David and I spent 5 weeks studying Meconopsis on the southern slopes of Annapurna in June and July 2016. This is close to the location in Nepal from which Meconopsis staintonii was described and is in the centre of the area to which they are confined. The predominant flower colour here is white.

Margaret Thorne

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2018, 10:00:17 PM »
White flowered plants can have either white filaments or deep red ones. Their basal leaves are pinnatisect (cut nearly to the midrib) near to the petiole, which is relatively long, and increasingly pinnatifid towards the tip.

Margaret Thorne

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2018, 10:12:20 PM »
There are fewer red flowered plants and they are otherwise identical to the white flowered ones

Margaret Thorne

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2018, 07:47:05 PM »
This plant had particularly fine deep red flowers and a red stigma too


Margaret Thorne

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2018, 07:56:49 PM »
But my favourites were the bicoloured ones

Peter Kohn

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2018, 08:26:28 AM »
Margaret, how tall were these plants. The plant Ian Scott brought to the October 2015 meeting of the Meconopsis Group was eight or ten feet tall as I remember. Have a few more seedlings already germinated this year but only one of the original plants germinated two years ago has flowered so far. It certainly closely resembled the pictures of the white forms you have posted.

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2018, 09:05:58 AM »
Flowers and leaves look exactly like what we had here this year in the garden pictures posted earlier cheers

Margaret Thorne

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2018, 11:19:34 AM »
Flowers and leaves look exactly like what we had here this year in the garden pictures posted earlier cheers

Ian - you posted two pictures of leaves. In the top photo the leaf on the right and in the bottom photo the leaf on the bottom look to me like Meconopsis staintonii. The other leaf is different, more like Meconopsis wallichii or could be hybridised. Here is a photo of a wild Meconopsis wallichii leaf

Margaret Thorne

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2018, 11:52:20 AM »
Margaret, how tall were these plants. The plant Ian Scott brought to the October 2015 meeting of the Meconopsis Group was eight or ten feet tall as I remember. Have a few more seedlings already germinated this year but only one of the original plants germinated two years ago has flowered so far. It certainly closely resembled the pictures of the white forms you have posted.

These plants were mainly taller than us and the tallest would have outstripped Ian Scott’s plant, though there wouldn’t have been many of those. I suppose the range was from 5 to 10 foot with most around 7 foot. We were seeing them in early flower, so they would be a bit taller when in seed. But Meconopsis paniculata can certainly grow that tall too and we saw some on this trip which were, Meconopsis wallichii can too. I don’t think height in cultivation is a very good indicator of species as the cultural conditions will make such a difference. For example, the number of hours of sunshine and light intensity will be much greater in Fife at flowering time than in monsoonal Nepal where these grow. Ian probably feeds his plants too! Here is a picture of Meconopsis staintonii which is taller than Annapurna. It’s all relative you know!

Margaret Thorne

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2018, 12:15:01 PM »
We did not find any yellow flowered Meconopsis staintonii plants and to the best of my knowledge there is no record of anyone else ever having done so. I would suggest that these have arisen in cultivation at Cluny (either accidentally or deliberately) and are hybrids. As such, it is incorrect to call them Meconopsis staintonii. If hybrids are grown with species, they may hybridise. This is how species have been lost from cultivation in the past and why we are encouraging members who have an interest in conserving the true species, to grow them in isolation from each other and from hybrids.

Peter Kohn

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Re: Meconopsis staintonii
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2018, 01:24:38 PM »
Thanks for confirming that the great height of Ian's flowering stem is well within expected limits. Yes, I think the general consensus seems to be that the plants at Cluny are probably hybrids. I must admit that I also wonder about the seedlings from Ian's big stem as there does appear to be some variability in the leaf form. There actually seems to be more uniformity among the progeny from the Cluny  'lemon-yellow' seeds. At this stage it is maybe to early to draw firm conclusions as only a single plant of 'albiflora' has flowered to date and none of the Cluny plants. Whatever the genetics of 'lemon-yellow' the viability of the seed is terrific in a second season and 'albiflora' has now germinated fairly well third time round.

My memory of our wallichii plants at Kerrachar is that they were typically about two metres tall. Other monocarpic rosette formers (probably all what Chris Grey-Wilson would call x complexa) were a similar height.